5 Little Known Secrets to a Successful Architecture Project
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Jeffrey
We’re here again with Patrick Rocca, Bosley Real Estate. And it’s the beginning of February 2026 and in this very snowy spring market, I’d like to ask Patrick to introduce himself and tell everyone what he does.Patrick Rocca
Good morning, Jeffrey, happy New Year. I think we can still say that. I haven’t talked to you since the end of last year, but is, yes, Patrick Rocca from Bosley Real Estate here in Midtown, Leaside Davisville area, and yeah, I’m here for all your real estate needs.Jeffrey
Thank you. And Patrick, I just noticed an article which said that the new home prices in the GTA slid even further at the end of 2025 and they were down about 25% from the peak. Now, people may look at this and if they’re in the market for an existing home, not a new build, they may think that this is a fantastic sign for them. But if you could please tell us the difference between these stats in new home builds versus what’s happening in the resale market.Patrick Rocca
Yeah, no, I’m happy to address that. I can tell you, unequivocally that, you know, new homes are not, plentiful, in the, in the midtown area. I mean, you do get infill housing, bungalows that have been torn down, and obviously these newer, custom built homes that are being built, but I think in general, if you look at new home construction, it’s not as prevalent as the resale market in, especially in the central core. there are, there are several newer built homes. but interestingly enough those are the homes that are lagging. when you look at the market in general, specifically in my area, newer homes that were built in the last year or so are kind of just sitting there.
I think we might have addressed this before in a, in a past podcast where, you know, the problem with those homes is that the builders bought them, you know, 3-4 years ago for at the peak of the market. I mean, they were paying $2,000,000 for a bungalow that’s worth 145 today. Carried, built during COVID, during the last couple of years where construction costs were extremely high. and are now in a position where they have to sell them for, let’s say, $4,000,000 plus and they’re actually worth $3.235 million. So, I mean, I can see that, being you know, obviously a factor in the new home sales, but I mean, I think in, if you take new home sales in general across the GTA. I mean there hasn’t been a lot of new home construction. I mean, I think that has really dwindled, from what I’m seeing and hearing. and I think that all goes back to, you know, you know, if we could talk about a housing crisis and you can talk about, you know, new homes being built, but they’re not being built because of, you know, the fees and all the development charges and the time it takes to get approvals. I mean, you know, we talked about, you know, ‘build baby build’, you know, with our, with our new incoming government, and there’s been nothing done. Literally, there’s been no building. and why is that? Well, I mean, you’ve got municipal, you know, barriers, you’ve got provincial barriers. You’ve got taxes, you’ve got, it’s just awful. I mean, I think I read something. And don’t quote me on this, but I’m pretty sure it’s fairly accurate. About a week ago, I read something that to build a home in Toronto. The fees and all the taxes and everything, the charges, add up to about a $100,000 per house. In Moncton, New Brunswick. It’s $10,000.Jeffrey
Wow.Patrick Rocca
So I mean, figure that out. I mean, it’s not, doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that, the cost to build, and the barriers to build, and the, you know, it’s just, it’s not, it’s crazy, and what are we doing? The government’s doing nothing about it. This goes back to the government. This goes, and it’s not just, I’m not talking federally. I talking provincially. I’m talking municipally. I mean it’s just, we are not, you know, we’re we talk a good talk. And we say, okay, let’s build, and we need affordable housing, and we need this, and we need that, but no one’s doing anything to assist in the pipeline.Jeffrey
And I think that, you know, back in the 80s and 90s, even before that, those of us who are old enough to remember, the federal government had an active part to play in constructing housing, especially affordable housing. Now, they’ve stepped away from that a number of decades ago. And as you say, the only levers they really have are policy levers and the levers that you talk about in terms of things like taxes and fees. I heard a condo developer speaking the end of last year and again, don’t quote me on this. They were saying that up to 30% of the cost of a condo development in an urban area are taxes, fees, levies, that sort of thing, not construction costs, not land costs, but everything else that’s required just to get a shovel in the ground.Patrick Rocca
Yeah, that numbers, I think I recall maybe even discussing with you or someone else and hearing that, but it’s fairly accurate. It’s ridiculous. And that’s why, I mean, we are, we are in a, in a serious crisis right now. you know, we have a housing crisis in our in our country. and that’s one of the main reasons. So, I mean, it’s sad. I mean, so I mean, how does that, you know, go over to the resale market, as you had mentioned, you know, how do they, how are they similar or how are they different? Well, I mean, the resale market is down too. I mean, let’s be honest. I mean, if you look at the resale market, compared to 2-3 years ago, we’re down about 26% in value. at from the peak. so, I mean, if you look last year, we were down 6%, you know, year over year, so, I mean, what’s, people, again, this goes back to our economy, and this goes back to consumer confidence, and this goes back to, you know, what will it take to get our market going again? And that’s the $1,000,000 question. I mean, it’s not, you know, I think it’s going to be a fairly rough year. again. you know, they’re projecting, and I read something of Royal LePage article that said that you know 2026 will be a recovery year. I don’t see it short term, for sure, it ain’t, it ain’t happening short term, long term, maybe towards the end of the year.
There could be some movement, but I mean, our economy is not in good shape. I mean, we, this all goes back to consumer confidence, uncertainty. People don’t know what’s going on. I mean, I hate to be Debbie Downer, but it’s a reality. I mean, I’m not going to be one of these realtors that says, Oh yeah, everything’s great. I mean, that’s not the way I am. I mean, I do, however, you know, I am the glass is half full type of guy. I do believe there are great opportunities in this market. If you’re a buyer. You know, you should be buying.
I mean, the rates are low. They’re not going to go much lower. I’m, going on here, but you know, rates aren’t going to go much lower. If anything, there’s been talk that they could have bottomed out and that they will maybe increase towards the 4th quarter. So, I mean, I don’t know what buyers are waiting for. Is the market going to drop another 34%, it could.. Is it gonna drop 10-15%? I don’t see it. Is it off 25, 30%, 100%? So why wouldn’t you buy? I mean, are you trying to predict the bottom?
And again, I’ve said this 1,000,000 times to you and to others. You can’t predict the bottom. you can’t predict the top. So if you’re buying, it’s a great time. If you’re selling people have to sell. Everybody has to sell for various reasons. or not everybody, but people have to sell for various reasons. I mean, whether it’s death, whether it’s separation, whether it’s, you know, moving out of town, whether it’s, you know, there’s all sorts of factors. So if you’re selling, yeah, you’re not getting what you were going to get 3 years ago, so be realistic, but your house will sell. I mean houses are selling. it’s not all doom and gloom. they’re just not selling for what they were 3 years ago, and if you’re waiting for that, you’re gonna wait a long time, you might as well hunker down for another 3 to 5 years because, we’re not going to see those numbers again.Jeffrey
I agree. And I was talking to a couple last week who are actively looking in the market. They’re looking in, you know, the various areas in Midtown, Toronto, in the core, and they’re very frustrated because they’re facing instances where they do get multiple offer situations. They were telling me that they had put an offer in on a house in East York and someone came in and offered $400,000 over the asking price. And I think that there is a lot of frustration, there are houses. But what they’re finding, and you know, this is their experiences that they’re looking for something which is maybe requires a bit of work, but they’re having challenges finding that. Are you finding that there is a lack of inventory of those houses, which maybe require a bit of work? I’m not talking about a full, like, tear down, but maybe that requires, you know, walls removed, basement finish, that sort of thing. Are you finding that there are less of those on the market?Patrick Rocca
Yeah, there is a bit of a, there is a bit of a lack of that inventory and you’re right. I mean, you know, you’re talking about these people that were in multiple offers. We’re still seeing multiple offers. I mean, there’s been instances that I’ve seen in the past 2 weeks where properties are selling for over asking. so, I mean, is that coming back? No, is it prevalent in certain price points in certain homes? Yes, East York being one of them. so, I mean, you know, I think that, to your point. Yeah, it’s hard to find raw product. I just listed something this morning. That’s a, it’s a great, a great bungalow in South Leaside, and I mean, is it, is it raw? No, I mean, does it move in? Yeah, does it need updating? 100%. But it’s got great potential, and hopefully, you know, that will sell. But you’re right. I mean, even though there is more inventory now than there has been, a lot of that is not raw or stuff that is, you know, in need of renovation.Jeffrey
So essentially, they could move in and do the work as they are able to finance it, which in a lot of cases for new buyers, for 1st time buyers, that’s really an ideal situation where, you know, you can bid up to a certain point, you can kind of live in the place, find out really what it’s like and then do your renovations afterwards.Patrick Rocca
Yeah, 100%. I mean, that’s what this house is. I mean, and it’s got, you know, an, like a, an in law suite in the basement. we did a garden suite study. You can build a big garden suite in the backyard with income. This is a really good income property and or property for a 1st time buyer who maybe wants to, you know, rent a basement, have an in law suite. I mean, there’s all sorts of potential in this property.Jeffrey
And that’s interesting that you brought up the fact that there are, that’s, other dwellings that are possible on a property, right down the street from us, they’re putting up a laneway suite that’s got 2 suites in it. So, something on the order of increasing it from a single-family home with a garage to at least 4, maybe 5 units on the property.
And, you know, when it came to Committee of Adjustment, the messaging that people on the call were getting is that the city is very flexible, let’s say, in, adjustments and in terms of, alterations for any property, any proposal which increases density allows for multi, units on a formerly single family house.
So, they even allowed for a variance for overheight and for backyard setback. So I think the city is in the policy part for individual projects is allowing for that. But as, you know, as we’ve seen, that’s only a single project that’s increasing from one to maybe 5 the number of units, and that’s not really going to make a dent.Patrick Rocca
Yeah, we’re seeing that, there’s one actually on Eglinton and Leaside, the similar sort of thing, it was a bungalow and they tore it down and they built, I want to say, 4 or 6 plex, and they went for, variants to get a garden suitein there as well and I’m not sure if they’ve got that yet. Unfortunately, the developer, the builder did everything without permission.Jeffrey
That’s the same developer.Patrick Rocca
Oh, is it? Okay. Yes. I mean, apparently that’s the MO of this builder. you know, they do what they do and then they ask for forgiveness and in this case is that’s what happened. It, quite frankly, it’s a, it’s a bit of an eyesore, but I mean, yeah, you’re right. I mean, the city is, the city and the province is approving these things and that’s what’s happening, right?Jeffrey
Now, the other side of the fence is, again, looking at, you know, what can make resale housing more viable for 1st time buyers. And the amount is, you know, kind of still eye watering when, you know, somebody looks at what’s required or the average resale home in the GTA, not just in the midtown area, but in the GTA, the number’s been over a $1,000,000 for quite a few years. So, in that, are you seeing that some of your buyers are looking at more flexible options, you mentioned that some of them have a suite which can be rented, maybe there’s an accessory unit, which could be built later on. Or even, co-ownership where, you know, somebody might go in with some friends or, you know, family members to, you know, subdivide a property to be able to increase the affordability. Have you seen anything around that in the market?Patrick Rocca
Not much on the co-ownership, however, I have heard of it, through some of my peers and colleagues. but the definitely the potential to have income. the potential to have, you know, a 2nd suite. obviously, that those are all factors, I think, that, are very appealing to, specifically to 1st time buyers, that, the thing with a garden suite, is, as you know, they’re not cheap to build, right? So, I mean, if you’re, if you’re paying a, you know, $1,300,000 for a property and it’s got income, which is great in the basement, you know, you potentially rent it out if it’s legal. and if, but if you want to build that garden suite, it’s, it could be another half a million as you know, right?Patrick Rocca
So, you know, there’s, you know, there’s prefab ones that you can buy for 250 apparently, but, yeah, there’s people looking at those options for sure, and it’s definitely more appealing, especially, to a 1st time buyer.Jeffrey
Yeah, and of course, you know, for affordability, we’ve always talked about things that, you know, people can do to, I guess, maybe ease the pain a little bit, that we talked earlier about, not necessarily buying something, which is completely done.
And I know from discussions, I’d say literally 3 quarters of people that I’ve talked to have challenges, seeing potential, you know, even if it’s something like paint or bad lighting. And I think that the other side of that is that, you know, working with somebody who’s in the neighbourhood, who can advise you on these things, you know, be able to give you some perspective on what something could be with maybe a new code of paint or, you know, updated fixtures, as well as understanding the different projects coming up in the neighbourhood, for instance, in my neighbourhood, at the corner of Mount Pleasant and Davisville there’s an office building, which for years was rumoured to be underdeveloped, and last year, finally, we did get the development notice that there’s going to be a 12 story condo put on that spot.
Now they’re probably not going to start construction for about 3 years. However, if you’ve bought a house, which is adjacent to that property, you’re a new home buyer, wouldn’t you want to know that something eventually might block your view or there might be construction disruption? An agent from another part of the city might not know that.Patrick Rocca
Yeah. And I mean, I think, I know a building you’re talking about the northeast corner, if I’m not mistaken, but I mean, the bottom line is I mean, I think, as a buyer, and as an agent, you have to kind of assume,. Now, in this current market economy, that anything close to a busy street, Mount Pleasant or Bayview, as in one or 2 houses in or a Laird or a Brentcliff, or, it doesn’t matter what’s there now. What’s going to be there in the future is going to be totally different and you have to just assume that. and I think that goes without saying, so, I mean, yeah, I mean, I agree with you, and it, you know, experience and knowledge of the, of the marketplaces is very important.Jeffrey
I agree. And it’s sometimes a little bit, I don’t know, maybe disruptive for somebody looking for a home to have a different agent in every different area they’re looking in. but, you know, what are the advantages of that? For somebody is looking very focussed in, say, Leaside or Davisville to have an expert on that area.Patrick Rocca
Well, it’s very important. and again, it’s, I mean, if you don’t have to have I mean, like when I say, you know, obviously I specialize in Leaside or Davisville. I sell, obviously in other areas, but if you come to me and say, Patrick, I want you to help me in Etobicoke, or I want you to help me in Mississauga, or I want you to help me in, you know, Thornhill. I won’t do it, because I don’t know the area.
As a matter of fact, I just referred some people to a colleague of mine in Thornhill last week, who are looking at buying. I refer to my network of colleagues, you know, almost, you know, a couple of times a month, because I just don’t feel comfortable.
You will get agents who will go, you know, and go to Hamilton, for God’s sakes. I mean, who does that? I mean, I don’t know what’s going on in Hamilton, let alone, you know, the far western part of the, of the city. so I just, you know, I know Toronto. I know Leaside Davisville. You know, I know Midtown. you know, I know East York. I mean, so I know those areas, but once I get beyond my comfort zone. I’m not the greedy person. I’m more. It’s more important to me to make sure that my client is, treated properly and professionally and has works with someone who has a knowledge of the area.Jeffrey
Absolutely. And as we’ve discussed, you’ve been doing this for over 30 years and seen a lot of technology come in, a lot of changes in the marketplace, but, you know, that experience, it does count for something. It’s not just in the negotiation technique. It’s not just in, you know, finding deals. It’s really understanding the process and for a 1st time home buyer, I can speak as one. They were really challenging times. I did not know, what was going to happen, and I was really glad I had somebody knowledgeable to really guide me through the steps.Patrick Rocca
Yeah, absolutely on 100%.Jeffrey
Fantastic. So, Patrick, why don’t we leave it there? and if folks are trying to get a hold of you, What’s the best way for them to actually contact you?Patrick Rocca
The best way obviously is through my office here in on Vanderhoof. my direct line. if I’m not in, just leave me a voicemail. I call you right back, it’s 416-322-8000. obviously, my email is probably the best because my phone, as I’ve mentioned, is attached to my body. It’s mail@patrickrocca.comJeffrey
Oh, fantastic. Well, as always, Patrick, it’s an interesting year so far. We’re about a month in and we will definitely touch base a little later on and see what’s happened in the spring market.Patrick Rocca
Yeah, it’s gonna be. I think it’s going to be interesting as, you know, as you said, we’re a month in and the spring market is just starting up and, you know, I’m just starting to sign up listings and whatnot, so the, I guess the next step will be to see is, will they sell and when will they sell.Jeffrey
Yeah, absolutely. So, looking forward to our next chat.Patrick Rocca
Thank you very much, Jeffrey. have a great day. Stay warm.Jeffrey
Thanks, Patrick. Bye.
Jeffrey
I’m here again with Patrick Rocca who’s with Bosley real estate and Patrick- Why don’t you introduce yourself to our listeners?
Patrick Rocca
Hey good morning, Jeffrey Patrick Rocca, Bosley real estate. I’m here in the Midtown neighbourhood of Leaside & Davisville located on Vanderhoof Avenue and been working this area for over 30 years and interesting times in our market right now.
Jeffrey
Yeah, it certainly is interesting times and just before the call we are chatting about a vacation properties & cottages and I was thinking back to just about five years ago little over people were struggling to stay in the city and really wanted to get out of the city and bought a lot of properties outside the city and really drove the prices up. And then as these things usually happen the people wanted to get back to city & the prices dropped somewhat. Now I know this isn’t your area of expertise, but have you seen any trends in that vacation properties cottage properties market?
Patrick Rocca
Yeah, yes we have them. We have an office in Niagara on the Lake; we have an office in Thornbury so we’ve seen this sort of market shift as I guess I would say from Covid days to today I mean obviously prices much like everywhere in the area in Ontario and Canada for that matter went crazy during Covid. But the conversely, the housing cottage market in those neighbourhoods have taken a hit in the past year so people who bought the peak or probably I would say easily off 20%. If you paid two 2 million for a property, you’re lucky to probably get 17 for now but if you’re again if it’s like anything I mean if you’re if you if you bought it and you wanna enjoy it and you’re there long-term I think I think you’re you’re fine. So but yeah, the cottage market the whole market in the 905 is his has taken a hit because people are coming back in and I mean they’re trying to get people to come back to work and there’s not as much remote working so yeah interesting market they are definitely longer. I mean the last time I talk to someone in our Niagara-on-the-Lake location, and they got 12 months of inventory.
Jeffrey
Wow
Patrick Rocca
Oh yeah it that might be off by a month or two, but I don’t think it’s off that much but yeah
Jeffrey
Wow
Patrick Rocca
Things have changed in that market but it’s interesting as like a Toronto market things have changed
Jeffrey
Yeah, exactly and you know I think over the past five years we’ve seen pretty rapid shifts I think for my research were getting back to a little bit more of the buyers market a little more supply coming on the market. Are you seeing the same sort of trend specially within the single-family detached market.
Patrick Rocca
Yeah, a lot more supply – definitely a buyers market and we start to see that shift this year properties that have been I mean people that are still thinking 2022-2023. They’re stuck in a reality chamber that’s not good – prices have come off. We’re seeing instances I mean it’s happened to me this past month. I mean I’ve had a great October. October is probably my best month of the year. Lots of several listings, lots of activity Offers sales but interesting enough. I had a couple properties both with multiple offers both sold under asking.
Jeffrey
Even with multiple sets, incredible
Patrick Rocca
Yeah, yeah and then but then again, I’ve also had properties of multiple that are sold over and we’re still seeing some stuff with multiples that selling over so it’s not this isn’t the end of this is a fabulous opportunity to buy and there’s there’s good. There’s good opportunity out there if here if you’re looking in them in the market.
Jeffrey
Right and the challenge is always to break that affordability barrier especially for first time homebuyers and are you seeing any movement in that area sort of in the you know 1.5 to 2 kind of first time homebuyers? I know it seems a little bit strange for listeners to hear that first time homebuyers are in the one and a half million dollar market, but such as the reality of Midtown Toronto
Patrick Rocca
Yeah, I mean right now and I’m not sure the last time we talked earlier in the spring, but I mean the first time buyers or the people that are moving up from condos and what not, anything under 2 1/2 million if it’s priced right shows well will sell now. Are you getting multiples not all the time are you selling? Yes, so there is movement in that market for sure I mean that’s that that’s where the healthy market is at least in Midtown Davisville. Side I mean, you know I just don’t want listings over three 3 1/2 million because they’re not selling unless they’re the special property that the good stuff right now the bungalows the semi’s are very popular right now That stuff is moving
Jeffrey
And I know over the past couple years as we’ve talked we’ve talked about properties that maybe need a little bit of work and I know you know in in a pre-Covid times there were still a few of those that come up on the market you know maybe that was a bit of speculation a bit of pressure from builders looking to you know flip a property, but are you still seeing that there are properties that you know if somebody is handy, they can do some work on it and improve the property?
Patrick Rocca
Yes, yes or no I mean you might be able to answer that question more so, but I mean I’m not sure what you’re seeing on your end but we’re seeing in the sales side that speculators and builders aren’t really around or prevalent. Now they’re not buying as much because of the economy, right I mean we’ve got some very challenging times right now. And properties that are, I mean, I had just one in south Leaside that sold and you know it needed at work and you know everybody you know was saying I won’t need too much work while I mean that’s why it was listed for 1.3. I mean if you want something that’s done you went around the corner for 1.65 so I mean if you’re realistic and your buyer you can get in the market if you’re handy if you get in if you have the ability to hire someone like yourself or a contractor you know to do some work and get it and get a good property but we’re still seeing a lot of the buyers that want turn-key and it said sometimes when you’re looking at budget restraints, it’s not realistic if you want turn-key at 1.3 – it ain’t happening But definitely that the builders the speculators I mean, I had a bungalow. I mean, I have another bungalow right now. It’s not the perfect location. It’s a great home. Great lot great street But builders you know if it’s if it’s if it’s good and it’s well priced you may get some movement, but there’s a lot of nervousness in the speculator market and if you got money, I mean the people that are that are doing well now the people that have money I mean, like we sold the condo to a group of investors that people are just banking on property because they know that things are low now and I’ll go in the bank. They’ll sit on it, and you know it’ll be in five years I mean, it’ll be to be making money, right
Jeffrey
That’s really interesting and that correlates with something that I read recently is that you know 10 investors will get a pool money together and buy several condos or you know several properties that sort of thing and you’re right that you know they do have the ability to sit on things longer and you know if you’re renting it then they have the ability to withstand a couple of months of you know maybe that property is empty one out of 10 or one out of you know five properties because they have you know a diverse pool of investors. Have you seen that come in to replace the kind of individual investor in the condo market?
Patrick Rocca
Just recently, I sold one in Davisville where it was a pool of investors -mortgage people. We’re not seeing the foreign buyer entry because we have that foreign buyer tax and I mean that’s one of the problems with condo market right now I mean the condo market is a disaster again. Take it with a grain of salt when I say it’s a “disaster.” I mean, new construction, the pre-con there’s so many micro condos there’s just no investors buying them and a lot of the investors you know before we put the foreign buyers ban on foreign buyers and they need to they need to repeal that tax if they want to I mean, we don’t have a we got a lot of housing. We got a lot of empty condos in the city and I’m not talking in Midtown. I’m talking like downtown like.
Jeffrey
Right
Patrick Rocca
We have a housing crisis within an affordability crisis I mean and no until you know they will. They figure that out you know if it’s a problem I mean there was 155 condos sold in September in Toronto in the GTA.
Jeffrey
Wow
Patrick Rocca
Hundreds I wanna say maybe thousands are sitting empty because you’re not selling so it’s kind of a catch 22 when we got people living on the street so we’ve got people can’t afford. So there’s I don’t know if the government is doing their thing in terms of trying to make things right but it’s not it’s not a good situation, but that being said the good condos and like I said, and I said this all the good condos in the good areas in good buildings the two bedrooms the one+ ones the good size ones they’re still selling for what they were a couple years ago but they’re still selling but if you got a micro condo that’s 450 ft.² You know it it’s a problem
Jeffrey
And I read recently that many banks are not even willing to approve mortgages for units under 400 ft.² especially in this market
Patrick Rocca
Yeah, I read something about that too yeah, for sure and I mean in there, they are cracking down a bit more now and financing and the banks are getting a bit tougher when it comes to that type of stuff
Jeffrey
And I think that you know that’s a good thing on the financing side, but you know as a you know someone in the industry, someone in their development / construction industry you can see that for probably past 2-3 years developers haven’t really been planning new units. What you see now, the cranes and you know that digging holes in the ground those projects were on paper 3-4 years ago and so you’re gonna see it like a dry up in terms of new supply over the next year two years maybe within under 10,000 units by 2028, which is a far cry from the 30,000 units which are going to complete this year and so yes, you’re right. We do have an affordability issue. We have a housing crisis and yet the developers aren’t able to actually make a profit where rents are now or for those units and also what the cost are to put those in the ground. I think last I read about a third of the cost of putting a new unit on the market is development fees and taxes. And so, you know, without you know, government is willing to budge on that it’s hard to make a case for building new supply
Patrick Rocca
100% you just nailed it on the head. I mean it’s a government issue. I mean there’s so much red tape the fees you know the permit process planning process and the government’s gotta do more to expedite it and in typical government fashion, they do nothing they talk and they do nothing. But if you want to fix this, you’ve got the government has to make moves in and drop the fees and or lower the fees and you know that this is part of the problem right. I mean when you talk about condos and no new condos being developed I mean, I read something last week 18 to 20 development projects have already been cancelled this year. I mean if you look at Bayview and Eglinton, which is a gong show, I mean you’ve got what 5-6 projects at 30+ stories. Scheduled, but I don’t know if any we’re gonna actually be built in the next 3 to 5 years. You look at Sunnybrook Plaza that thing’s gonna sit empty. I mean they just gone back to the drawing board they had they were approved for 22 buildings; two towers 17 and 14 stories. I think and now they’ve gone back to the drawing board, and they want 35+ stories. There are now three buildings so it’s I mean that again to see approved so that’s not happening for 3 to 5 years, you know you get the car wash, you got the Esso station, the townhome site – all these development projects. I just don’t see them happening because there’s no demand for it
Jeffrey
Yeah, it’s really a strange situation where you know again we say there’s people who want housing but there’s no demand for housing at that price right what was gonna be in the end.
Patrick Rocca
Correct that’s what I said it’s an affordability thing right. I mean these builders they’re building and they’re still getting hoping to get their thousand plus / square foot and the average person can’t afford that. The people that really need housing can’t afford that.
Jeffrey
Yes
Patrick Rocca
It’s an odd situation. I’ll tell you that right now.
Jeffrey
It sure is and even in the detached housing, you know that sort of thing at least now if you’re in that market, there is a little bit more. I don’t wanna say return to normalcy because you know what is normal around here, but at least you know for the last couple of months has been a buyers market like you said there’s there is value out there in the market if you’re willing to look and you really are willing to understand the local market and the neighbourhood that you wanna move into.
Patrick Rocca
Oh yeah, there’s definitely great value and don’t get me wrong. I mean at the market I started to see turn in September, October and I mean there’s been some there’s been some activity which is good. Like I said, my October’s been a very, very productive month. I’m starting to see that across the board. I mean, you know we have our weekly office meeting here at Bosley and our sales report. Every Monday has been like Big. So there’s deals happening and I feel that just my personal opinion that and I said this before I think that people have come to that this is the new norm like we were. I mean this is an interest rate people keep saying to me. I had a client say to me a couple weeks ago let’s wait till the rate drops one more time and I might even that rates or not. The rates aren’t really driving this market.
Jeffrey
Correct
Patrick Rocca
Or hindering this market- what’s hindering this market is our economy you know the uncertainty, job loss, the unemployment, the inflation we know the infamous trade deal that we were promised that we were gonna get in July. Here we are November nothing. I mean it’s there’s just so much uncertainty that it’s trickle down to you know the buyers and in the real estate market that that’s important if there’s if there’s uncertainty it’s not a good thing. I think we’re gonna see an interest rate cut this week. We’re gonna see at least one more before the end of the year. So, I mean again, I don’t really know how much that has to tie into the market. I think it’s more related to you just economy in general.
Jeffrey
Yeah, and you know when you talk about often, you do talk about uncertainty the ability to be able to move or at least make a decision when others are not and in 3-5 years, if you look back and say well, things didn’t look amazing, but you know we needed a place to live and we kind of bit the bullet we bought a house. And you know there’s no guarantees, of course, but I think that like periods in the past when you look back, you’ll say you know there weren’t a lot of people that were willing to go in at that time, and say “I’m glad that we bucked the trend and looked at fundamentals looked at the market over by 10 15 years and said yeah it was actually based on the fundamentals. It was a good time to buy.”
Patrick Rocca
Yeah, I mean you know I said just 1 million times I think I’ve even said it on your podcast a few times I mean there’s two things in real estate. You can’t predict and that’s a top & the bottom.
Jeffrey
Right
Patrick Rocca
I don’t care what people say. I think we’re close to the bottom at least in the freehold residential section of the market. I mean the condo market still give me some time to fall if you’re looking at downtown and Pre-con, but I mean if you’re in a long-term and you’re already you know. Saving 30-40 cents on the dollar you know what’s another five cents. I mean you know you’re gonna gamble for that and I mean better to buy now and if you’re holding a 5+ years, you’re in great shape now on the other on the other hand if you’re thinking of selling, I mean, I don’t I don’t think I mean if you’re thinking of something you have to sell be very realistic understand listen to your realtor be guided properly. And understand that it’s not 2022 or 2023 and you know I think the spring is gonna be a little better I mean are we gonna see double digit games next year absolutely not. We’re back to sort of kind of a normal market we still have uncertainty by the looks of it now we might not even have a trade deal if any till 2026. You know what I mean and I think I said this all wrong. I think that it’s gonna come down to CUSMA and they’re gonna try and renegotiate this all at one time and you don’t think again there’s uncertainty there but selling the spring I’m talking to a lot of people right now we’re going to sell the spring because our fall market fizzling out right now. But you know I think I think it’s going to be a decent spring. I just don’t know if you’re looking for 5-10% gain, that ain’t happening.
Jeffrey
Yeah, I think that’s very wise advice and you know again putting everything together we don’t know what’s going to happen in early 2026. There’s a whole bunch of other factors that that we just don’t talk about that that could make the market more in certain to make you know affordability go up or down but one thing that we haven’t talked about in a while is the practice of real estate you’ve been in this business for over 30 years. If there were somebody is listening now it says you know maybe it’s a good time to get into being a real estate agent you know what would you advise them?
Patrick Rocca
Oh yeah, I get asked this quite frequently. It’s probably not the answer to most people want to hear but you know it’s a tough business. It’s a very tough business and I would say that if you’re going to, I said this agents for years before Covid and I get a lot of people come to me you know, like my kids friends are younger than you know they think it’s a get rich quick scheme. You know people that have been in the business for the last 3-4-5 years since Covid are now seeing that this is not an easy business and unless you’re doing it full-time and unless you’re prepared to sacrifice. And do what you need to do. It’s not the business for you. This isn’t a get rich quick scheme. It’s you know establishing routines and boundaries and commitments and it’s a tough business and you know I’ve been doing a 30 odd years and I’m seeing in the last couple years. Stuff that just I shake my head out every day and if you talk to any seasoned agent and I talk to many on a weekly basis, we also say the same thing like you know where these people get their license you know they can’t negotiate them their self out of a wet paper bag – they don’t know what they’re doing. It’s bizarre. So I mean it’s a tough business and you need to work with a brokerage. This reason I’ve been a Bosley for 30 years. I mean that you know we train we got a great management team and great resource resources, in-house legal. We’re not just one of these places where they give you a desk and say you go You get good guidance here so you gotta pick a good brokerage company has been around. We’ve been around almost 100 years. And you want that support is a big thing if you’re getting into this business now
Jeffrey
Yeah, I would agree and you know we have so much information at our fingertips right now, but information only takes you so far because in the end it decide what the market is it’s a people game right you have to build those relationships not only with potential buyers and sellers, but also other agents right there’s a level of trust which you really need to establish and that doesn’t come instantly no matter how many Instagram posts you put out so I agree with you hundred percent. If you’re looking for a home or trying to sell, you know please find yourself a reputable established agent not just somebody who you know looks good on your screen, but who knows the market who knows the ins and outs of this process and who has a good relationship and reputation
Patrick Rocca
You know it’s funny you mention that because in the last two weeks I’ve done I’ve done several deals but two in particular I did with very reputable very seasoned agents and in both times in one time written on my LinkedIn, the agent when we announced the sale of the agent came on- “It is so nice to go to work with you because it’s refreshing to work with agents who know what they’re doing.” And people that are straight up, so I mean very, very important when you’re when you’re working with an agent, whether it’s the buyer on the cell that you work with someone who’s been who knows what they’re doing. It’s been in the business and has a reputation.
Jeffrey
Exactly and you know if I have one last thing to say if this is your biggest investment you know, don’t try to save a few pennies because in the end you want this transaction go smoothly you don’t want any hidden gotchas coming up you know when you close, you really want this to be a smooth process it can be enjoyable. I know there’s a lot of emotion involved, but it can be enjoyable if you’re working with the right people.
Patrick Rocca
I hundred percent and I said this many times you know your biggest investment unless you got unlimited wealth, but I mean you know I often come across people that say oh well I need a list of my nephew or I’m gonna listen to my sister-in-law and I’m like that’s great and it’s very nice of you but you’re giving $2 million to someone who sells two homes a year
Jeffrey
Yes
Patrick Rocca
You know it’s risky I mean, you know there’s a reason why you work with top people you know when you work with your finance people your investment people I mean, you don’t want the guy who is brand new on the business writers. You know it’s good I mean, I remember when I was, but I learned the hard I work with people experience and I gained experience but yeah, you just don’t wanna be working with the cousin.
Jeffrey
So let’s just leave it at that and you know as well. Just been a pleasure and if people wanna get a hold of you what’s the best way that they can reach you?
Patrick Rocca
Yeah, they can always reach me through my office here at Bosley at 103 Vanderbilt Ave. my phone number is 416-322-8000. If I’m not in just leave me a voicemail I call you right back or you can email me my phone is attached to my hip- mail@patrickrocca.com and I’ll get back to you immediately.
Jeffrey
Yeah, I can attest that Patrick gets back to people usually within a few hours so yeah that’s definitely the best way to get a hold of him
Patrick Rocca
If it’s a few hours, I’m usually out for a run. It’s usually quicker.
Jeffrey
Yeah, exactly so I thanks again Patrick it’s been a pleasure, and I know that people will definitely benefit from what you shared today. Thanks again for the call thank you
Patrick Rocca
Likewise, have a great day. Thanks for the chat.
Jeffrey I’m here again with Patrick Rocca of Bosley Real Estate, and we are in the early part of June 2025. Patrick, why don’t you introduce yourself and let us know what you do in the Davisville and Leaside area?
Patrick Rocca Good morning, Jeffrey. Thank you for having me. Yes, I’m Patrick Rocca with Bosley Real Estate, and my area of expertise is the Midtown area, Leaside, and Davisville. I’m a resident in the area and have been in the area for over 30 years.
Jeffrey And that’s quite something, being in this market for 30 years as a real estate agent. I was alluding to this earlier. Something I just noticed in the past four or five days is that I’ve noticed about half a dozen more listings in my little areas as I’ve been driving around. Most of them were actually Bosley Real Estate listings. But have you noticed a change in the market between, say, a week or two weeks ago and what we’re seeing now?
Patrick Rocca I think we’re into the final days and throes of the spring market, for what there was of the spring market, because it was all over the map. May was a very good month for me personally. I know if you look at the Toronto real estate statistics, there are more homes listed now in the GTA than in years. There are way more listings in our area. The interesting point is the statistics talk about how we’re down, price-wise, and how there’s more inventory and sales are down, but that’s GTA-specific. If you go neighbourhood-specific and you look at, let’s just say, Leaside/Davisville or some of the core areas, prime product is still moving there in specific price points. For example, I’m listing two this week in Davisville, one on Soudan and one on Balliol, and I suspect that they will sell quite quickly. And again, it all goes to the price point. Right now, most of the sales are in that under-2.5-million range, which has been pretty consistent for the last year or so. But you know, if you look at entry-level into our neighbourhood—the semis, the smaller detached—those things are still moving at the right price, right?
Jeffrey Yeah, and have you noticed that as a whole the market, in terms of movement for buyers, seems to have picked up a bit? You’re looking at more inventory, but in desirable areas that are, you know, “priced for new buyers,” there’s a lot of activity. Can you kind of break that down for us? Because what we are seeing now, based on the last time we talked, was a whole bunch of new conditions, the introduction of stress, and an uncertain environment. The Bank of Canada has, for the past two interest rate meetings, held the line on interest rate drops. So are you seeing people finally coming to grips with the uncertainty, the real estate market, and saying, “I’ve got to actually go buy something now, and now is as good a time as any”?
Patrick Rocca In certain cases, yes, but we’re still seeing a confidence gap. There’s no doubt about it. We’re seeing there’s good opportunity for buyers right now, but a lot of buyers—and I started noticing this more this year, late spring—a lot of buyers are still kind of waiting. And a lot of buyers who are in the market are still thinking that they can lowball stuff, which it’s really not. I mean, you know, there’s stuff that’s selling right now that are good opportunities that would’ve been selling for a couple hundred thousand dollars more two or three years ago, so there’s good opportunity. But I’m telling you, there is a real issue with confidence right now and uncertainty. Even though, you know, interest rates have held, I was reading or listening to something yesterday that they’re talking about maybe we won’t see an interest rate decrease until the later part of the year. I think we need to hopefully get a rate decrease sooner than later, and I do believe it will happen. I think it has to happen. And like I said, it’s confidence right now. It’s really, really a confidence thing with buyers. And it also goes back to sellers who are not being guided properly. They still have unrealistic expectations. So, you’ve got agents that aren’t advising their clients properly, and you’ve got sellers that are thinking 2022 and buyers that are thinking, you know, 2015.
Jeffrey Yeah.
Patrick Rocca It is a weird market. And it’s every deal. I mean, I had an interview with The Globe and Mail last week, and I said it: every deal is a challenge, whether it’s the seller, the buyer, or the agent that you’re dealing with. They’re just tougher to put together.
Jeffrey Interesting. So, you’re saying that we’re still seeing a little bit of unrealistic expectations on the seller’s side, perhaps a little bit of a wait-and-see attitude on the buyer’s side, and so it’s been harder to reconcile those two. Is there really a gap between what, for instance, a buyer would expect to get for the average price in the area—one, one-and-a-half million—and what’s actually available in inventory?
Patrick Rocca Yes. It depends. I had a property that I sold on Davisville a couple of weeks ago, and the buyer had a budget. They started looking at other areas, but they really wanted to be in Davisville Village, and they had to sacrifice on size and a little bit on location, but they got in. But a lot of buyers are still, you know, they still have that champagne taste, beer budget out there. And like I said, there are buyers… I had three offers on one of my listings a couple of weeks ago. One of the offers came in $300,000 under asking with conditions, and I’m like, “Who does that in multiple offers?” It was just bizarre, but that’s a case of a buyer with unrealistic expectations and also an agent who’s not guiding their client properly.
Jeffrey Wow. And you noticed that there were some multiples. Are we seeing a return to many deals having multiples, as we saw maybe five years ago where you had to come in strong, there were multiple offers, and you had to have no conditions with the hope of getting the sale? Are we starting to see that, or because there’s more inventory, are buyers being more cautious when they’re going in and submitting their offers?
Patrick Rocca No, we’re starting to see… well, we’ve been seeing it a lot this spring, but recently, in the last 30 to 45 days, we’re seeing a lot of multiples and we’re seeing over-asking. And you know, most of the offers are clean, and I think buyers have to know that they have to be clean. I had a property I listed in Davisville two weeks ago, and I sold it with a bully offer, you know, three days on the market. And that weekend alone, there were four or five houses in the area, including in Leaside, that all had bully offers and sold before the offer date. So that’s a good sign, but again, it’s all price dependent. It’s up to that 2.5-million-dollar range, right?
Jeffrey Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I know historically, houses at three, three-and-a-half million tend to be more niche, more specific. Although, we have seen, I would say, in this neighbourhood, prices creeping up into that range for new builds. And I think, again, the challenge is what we’ve been hearing on the news: how are buyers going to be financing these types of prices where, for a first-time homebuyer or even a move-up homebuyer, these are significant prices to contend with? On the other side, you’ve got the insecurity in terms of geopolitical events. So really, how do buyers start thinking about this if they are really starting to get serious about potentially buying their first home in the neighbourhood that they really want to live in?
Patrick Rocca I think, obviously, the first thing is getting pre-approved and understanding what their budget actually is. We’re not seeing it very often where houses are selling for some crazy number where you scratch your head and go, “How the heck is that going to appraise?” We don’t see that very often. So, I think buyers are safe that way. As long as they’re educated, getting good advice from their agent, getting, like I said, pre-approval, and working with a good mortgage broker. As long as they keep within their means, I think they’re going to be in good shape.
Jeffrey And another thing that we’ve been hearing about over the past couple of years is the wave of refinancing that’s happening for existing mortgage holders. And I know you’re not a specialist in this area, but we were hearing doom and gloom for the past two years about this cliff of refinancing that had to take place in 2025. I had to refinance as well, and there was doom and gloom that there was going to be a potential wave of defaults and it would lead to a lot of uncertainty in the market. Have you heard or seen anything anecdotally about that?
Patrick Rocca Yes, I have. As a matter of fact, I sold one under power of sale two weeks ago in Davisville, a condominium. I’ve also heard of other situations where people, you know, refinanced for various reasons in the past couple of years, whether it was a failed business or unemployment, or people had to sell. But we are hearing about power of sales a bit more, and we’re starting to see that there are people that, you know, are leveraged.
Jeffrey Yeah, yeah, most definitely. And I know even up to a couple of years ago, between the condos and sort of entry-level houses, people were always confident that the value of their property would be going up. So even if they had to really, really stretch for a couple of years and they did need to sell, they would have equity and be able to not be underwater. Now, potentially, given the market hasn’t appreciated the same amount, there could be situations where somebody’s underwater even if they have to sell. Do you think that type of realization is starting to come into, at least, the first-time homebuyer market?
Patrick Rocca Yes, yeah, I would say that for sure. That realization is there for sure. I think that again, the buyers have to understand right now they have leverage. Not all of them are using it, though. That’s the problem because they still think that the market is falling. And yeah, it’s going to go down a bit, but I mean, as I’ve said many times before, in real estate, the two things you can’t predict are the top and the bottom. But I mean, we’re off the bottom, and there are some good opportunities. But on the other hand, there are sellers that are still in denial, right? You know, who paid big bucks during… specifically, you talked about infill. I mean, they paid big bucks for lots during COVID, built the property, and now they’re trying to sell them. Well, they paid 2 million for the lot in COVID, and now that lot is probably worth 1.5 million, maybe. And it cost more to build during the past couple of years, and now they’re trying to sell for four, and the house is worth three. There are all sorts of those issues out there too. That’s why you’re seeing those infill projects sit.
Jeffrey Yeah, and you talked about opportunities. As a smart buyer, what do you have to be aware of when you’re looking at buying opportunities, especially in that Davisville-Leaside area?
Patrick Rocca I mean, Leaside is a pretty safe area to buy in, so I just think it’s always location, location, location. Be careful and do your research. Make sure you’re working with someone local that knows where the condo developments are going to be. I mean, you don’t want to be buying a house on a street where a couple of neighbours have been bought up by a developer, right? And there are some situations like that where I’ve had instances where I told buyers, “There’s a developer buying up houses on this street, stay away from it.” So as a first-time buyer, you want to be careful of that.
Jeffrey Definitely. So, like you said, being plugged into the development process. And I know that areas are being re-zoned, and we do obviously need more housing, and condos seem to be the quickest way to build mass amounts of housing. But like you said, there are areas where if you’re going to be dealing with construction over the next two to five years, that can significantly impact the potential for you to be able to show your property to its best advantage, right? You know, buyers don’t want to be tripping over construction debris as they’re going into an open house.
Patrick Rocca Well, this is true. And on the other hand, buyers also don’t want to be living through four or five years of condo construction, right?
Jeffrey 100% agree. Now, we’ve talked in the past about, in this area specifically, because there are older homes, there are opportunities to work with somebody, especially a real estate agent, who can see potential and be able to see beyond potentially outdated light fixtures and old windows. Are you still seeing those opportunities in the housing stock, or are most of those now being turned over and modernized?
Patrick Rocca Sorry, I’m not quite sure I understand the question. So you’re asking me if we’re seeing houses that are dated that are coming to market? Yes, oh yeah. As a matter of fact, of the two listings I’m bringing out this week, one is an estate sale, and it’s pretty much lot value. The other one is a lovely home, a fabulous garden, and parking, but it could probably use an update in the kitchen, and you could do some work in the basement. So you’re seeing that. That’s a good opportunity for buyers to get into the market and add their own touches.
Jeffrey And you touched on a really interesting point, which is that there are probably still properties out there that have been well-maintained. And if you are realistic as a buyer, you don’t have to dig out the basement and top up the roof right away. You could probably stage some of that work so that you’re ready to do it as you kind of grow with the house. I think a lot of buyers think if they’re looking at a property that is dated, that it needs to be a total gut job just to be able to move in, with one year of construction and a huge budget.
Patrick Rocca Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, it’s hard to find the perfect house, and a lot of buyers, when they move in, they want to add their personal touches right away. But if you find something that’s decent and livable, like you said, you can do things over time, right?
Jeffrey Yeah, yeah. I think if you’re looking at a purchase price of, you know, seven figures—one-and-a-half to two million seems to be around what we’re getting for a house in the area—and then you’re thinking, “I’ve got to spend another half a million dollars to bring it up to my standards,” that’s an extremely big pill to swallow. So, if you could, you know, paint, change the fixtures, work with a designer to give it that more modern feel, and then save the big work for later on, I think that helps people mitigate a bit of the uncertainty of, “Well, we put so much into this house. We need the rest of the neighbourhood to come up to value so that we don’t get squeezed as the most expensive house on the market.”
Patrick Rocca No, you’re 100% correct.
Jeffrey Yeah, so I think, in terms of our original conversation, you’re absolutely right. The Greater Toronto Area as a whole is a bit different from specific markets, and I think you need to look beyond the numbers, especially with your agent, to really understand what’s happening in the neighbourhood. We’ve talked about this before in terms of things like dealing with multiple offers and being able to see potential in properties, but you brought up a fantastic point about understanding the neighbourhood dynamics and potential developments which are going to affect the value of your home in the future.
Patrick Rocca Absolutely. And as you know, there’s a lot of development happening in our community. So, if you’re a buyer walking in blindly and you’re not in tune with what’s going on, you could find yourself in the middle of a potential construction site.
Jeffrey Oh yeah, yeah. And not just one within your own four walls, but one that is looking to take over the entire street.
Patrick Rocca Absolutely, yeah, exactly.
Jeffrey Fantastic. So we’ve covered a lot of ground here, and again, I thank you for your time, Patrick. If folks want to reach out to you, what’s the best way for them to get a hold of you?
Patrick Rocca The best way for them to get a hold of me is through my office at Bosley at 416-322-8000, or you can email me. Email’s always good; I have my phone with me at all times. And that’s mail@patrickrocca.com. If anybody wants to talk about the upcoming summer market or fall market and my thoughts on that, I’d be happy to talk with them.
Jeffrey Fantastic. Yeah, and you know, we’ve been doing this for quite a while. As you mentioned, 30 years in the market, and definitely, I think if folks really want to know what’s happening in the Davisville-Leaside market, you’re one of the first stops people should make.
Patrick Rocca Thank you very much, Jeffrey.
Jeffrey All right, thanks, Patrick. As always, it’s been a pleasure, and I know we’ll talk soon.
Patrick Rocca Absolutely. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye-bye.
Jeffrey
I’m here again with Patrick Rocca, and if you’re in the Davisville, Mount Pleasant, Leaside area, he doesn’t need any introduction. But for those who don’t know Patrick, Patrick, why don’t you just give a quick intro to our listeners?
Patrick
Thanks for that intro, Jeff. Happy New Year, everybody. And it’s Patrick Rocca from Bosley Real Estate here in Midtown Leaside area on Vanderhoof Avenue.
I’m one of the top agents in the area. I’ve been working in this area for over 30 years, and I call this area home.
Jeffrey
Yeah, and that’s kind of an interesting thing. A lot of real estate agents do operate outside the areas where they live, and you’ve lived in Davisville, Leaside for well over 30 years. So maybe you could talk about how that gives you a bit of an advantage when it comes to the real estate in this area.
Patrick
Well, I like to think it gives me an advantage because I mean, it’s very important when you’re working with a realtor that you work with someone who knows the area, knows the community, knows what’s happening in terms of the developments, knows the schools, knows all that sort of stuff. Unfortunately, a lot of people go the different route of hiring someone that will give them the best rate and the highest price, and that’s not always the case. But having someone that’s local is really important because I was just talking with some people last week, and they were talking to an out-of-area agent, and I quickly explained to them, I said, they were asking me the benefit of working with me and obviously being local and knowing everything, and they didn’t even know that there’s a development going to be happening in their backyard.
I promptly told them that, and they were like, oh, we didn’t know. I’m like, well, I’m sure the other agent never told you that either, but I knew. So just little things like that that are somewhat important, I would think.
Jeffrey
Yeah, and as we see more and more development, as we get more and more housing proposals, as we know there’s a bit of a housing situation in the GTA, those type of things are going to be very, very important to people. If they’re going to be staying for a number of years, you do definitely want to know about the developments that are going to be coming up in the area that could effectively affect your housing prices.
Patrick
Absolutely. I have a couple that called me on the weekend from Chicago. They referred to me looking in the area, and they picked a bunch of properties that they wanted to see, and we promptly whittled the properties down because of high rises that were going to be built next door or in the vicinity and traffic patterns and all that sort of stuff.
So yeah, it’s important. I mean, it never ceases to amaze me when I go to meet people to sell their houses, and they didn’t use me to buy the house, but when they’re selling there, they’re using me, and they’re like, when we bought this, we didn’t know it was a busy street, or our agent never told us it was a busy street. I mean, it’s just stuff like that just boggles my mind, right?
Jeffrey
Yeah, absolutely. And I know people who do more due diligence when they’re buying a car than buying a house. As you could expect, a house is usually the biggest investment people make and the type of thing where it’s just not as easy often to sell a house as it is to sell a car.
Patrick
Yeah, I mean, buying a car. I mean, I see people do more due diligence buying a stereo or some sort of audio system than they do, which is a fraction of the price. It is crazy.
I mean, I’m not a big fan of agents that are working out of area. I mean, I see it time and time again, agents that are from Toronto, they’ll go to Brampton, or they’ll go to Etobicoke, or they’re going to areas where they just don’t know the market, and it’s not good for the client. It’s just not something I just wouldn’t do.
I would put them in touch with someone who’s local.
Jeffrey
I absolutely agree. And as we’re talking about the GTHA, the stats came out for December from Toronto Regional Real Estate Board. And overall, looking at them, they look about flat.
The price looks about the same, sales look about the same. But let me know, is there anything underneath those numbers that might be a bit different than what people see on the surface?
Patrick
Well, it was interesting. I mean, towards the end of last year, we had a blip. I mean, when I say a blip, a good blip.
I mean, November, for me personally, was one of my best Novembers in my 30-odd years. It was very busy. There were some last-minute shoppers, as we say.
There were deals happening. So, I mean, it was a very positive end to the year. And the numbers, I mean, they were healthy.
I mean, they were, you know, last year, when I say last year, the year before 2023, you know, you could have shot a cannon off in November and not hit anybody in the housing market. I mean, this year was totally different. So, does that mean that prices went up?
Prices didn’t necessarily go up. I mean, they remained stable. But there buying in November and December understood that, you know what, there was some good, there was value there, and there were deals to be had.
And that’s fairly typical every year. I mean, now we’re into the spring market, where things, you know, hopefully will start to pick up. We’re starting to see some statistics over the first three weeks where things are picking up.
But it’s still, it’s been an interesting start to the year. I mean, we’ve, it has not been, in my opinion, as busy as I thought it would be. We’re seeing sales, but not, we’re doing a lot of evaluations, but people seem to be almost like they’re in a pause.
I’ve had several people that were supposed to be listing this month, early February. Some are now putting it off till March, for various reasons, not necessarily, you know, all the reasons that people think, you know, such as rates and, you know, the election and, you know, the disaster that our government is right now, federally. And Trump, of course, I mean, I just, those haven’t been the reasons why people are sort of stalling.
It’s, it’s just personal, which I find interesting. It’s always a good time. I mean, if you look at the statistics in the first three weeks, I mean, the percentage of listings that we’re selling over asking, they’ve gone up.
I mean, it went from like, in the first week, 27% were selling over asking, then it was 29%. Now it’s 51%. So, I mean, you’re starting to see property selling over asking, but there’s also some weird stuff.
So, I mean, it’s not, it hasn’t been the pickup to the January market, like I expect it. So, it’ll be interesting to see what happens in February.
Jeffrey
Yeah. And those are two things I was going to ask about, you know, rates, as well as the US election. Typically, when you think of the market, you think those are two really big drivers.
But maybe, you know, in this area, maybe it’s not as big a factor as some people think.
Patrick
Well, I mean, rates, rates are a given. I mean, they’re coming down. I mean, it is what it is.
And I mean, if you keep waiting, I mean, it’s a federal analogy. I mean, you can’t, you can’t predict the bottom. So, are you waiting for rates to bottom out?
I mean, that’s foolish because as rates go down, prices go up. That’s just the way it is. So, I mean, you’re better to get in now and lock into a variable and then maybe lock in when rates go, you know, you know, hit the bottom whenever that may be.
The Trump election, I mean, I don’t know how much of a factor that is in the housing market. I mean, you know, prices are stable, you know, default rates are low, interest rates are low. I don’t see his tariffs affecting the housing market.
I think people that are dialled into the market, you know, they’re already committed. So, I just don’t see that. I think there’s going to be some bumps in the road with what or what he won’t do on February 1st.
I think the bigger driving factor is, you know, we now have a provincial election, which is painful. And then, like I said, I mean, our government has been a gong show since last year. Well, I mean, it’s been a gong show longer than that.
But I mean, if you go back to, you know, before Christmas and the proroguing of government and now there’s nothing happening and it’s just, you know, when we need stuff to happen, when we need a strong stance, you know, so there’s people that feel maybe a little uncomfortable and they’re kind of nervous. So, I think that, I think federally, there’s more concern than there is. I mean, provincially, I think it’s a foregone conclusion.
I think Ford will get in again. I just, you know, federally, though, we’re such a disaster that, I mean, I think there is some nervousness there.
Jeffrey
Yeah. And that touches on an interesting point that a lot of what we see in the market is really driven by emotion. And we saw it back in, you know, 2021 and 22.
And we’ve seen it in earlier years as well. Although, you know, we look at statistics and we look at numbers and we say, rationally, people, you know, they should be getting into the market because even if the rates drop, like you said, prices are going to rise. But a lot of what drives this, especially in this area, are emotions.
And so, how do you, as an agent, really help your clients, whether they’re buying or selling, try to take the emotion out of that transaction?
Patrick
Well, that’s the hardest part, right? I mean, you know, emotion is the number one driver in real estate, whether you’re buying. I mean, you know, you can see it in a buyer’s eyes when they walk into a house.
It’s like, you know, a deer in the headlights. You can tell they want that house, right? So, emotionally, it’s hard from a buyer’s standpoint.
From a seller’s standpoint, it’s, I mean, really, it’s trying to educate your client. I mean, we’re still dealing with clients that, and we’re seeing it. And I’m talking to an agent this morning who said that she’s getting tons of calls from people that, you know, bought in 2022.
Well, I mean, if you bought in 2022, you bought at the peak, and your property’s not worth what it was in 2022. So, I mean, you have to educate your people. You have to talk to them and show them why, you know, where the value is today and where it was in 2022.
And I mean, I had a conversation with some people last week, and they want X. And I’m like, well, you’re not getting X. I mean, maybe you should stay for another year or two, right?
So, it’s all about educating people. I mean, in trying to get them to understand that it’s a commodity. And emotionally, yes, we completely understand, especially for people that have been in houses for, you know, 30, 40, 50 years, and, you know, have family ties and whatnot.
It’s very emotional. But you try to educate people as best you can. And, you know, tell them what they should hear, not what they want to hear.
A lot of agents will say anything to get the listing, and they’ll say, oh, yeah, your place is worth 2 million when it’s worth 1.3. And, you know, it’ll sit. I mean, you just don’t want that. I mean, there’s a property in our area that’s been on and off the market now for, I mean, one of many that has been on and off the market now for months, and it’s been all over the place.
They’re getting poor advice, and they’re not even, obviously not using local agents. I don’t even know who the agents are that they’re using. They’ve gone through two or three agents.
But I mean, it’s just, it’s laughable. I mean, I don’t even know who’s showing the property, because you can tell that the pricing’s off. It’s an unrealistic seller.
So why would you waste your time, right?
Jeffrey
Yeah. And, you know, that’s kind of a challenge at the top end of the market. So usually those are the ones which are, I don’t want to say usually, but often those ones which have got, you know, days on market over whatever, 50, 60, 100 days, that you can tell, you know, for some portion of those sellers, they would be much better served with someone who’s got more local knowledge.
But again, like you said, if somebody, they purchased at the height of the market, perhaps they spent on a renovation, and you know, even at market pricing, they’re going to be underwater. Of course, you know, they’re looking to recoup their investment, and it’s just a bitter pill for someone to say, okay, well, your house is not worth X right now. So that’s, I guess, part of the emotional challenge is, obviously, as a real estate agent, it’s your job, it’s your livelihood, you want to, you know, get the work.
But on the other hand, it’s, you know, you only get repeat work when you do a good job for your clients.
Patrick
Right. Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. And in the case in particular I just mentioned to you, these people bought a while ago.
They didn’t buy in 2022. They’re just shooting for the stars, and their house is not worth what they think it is, and their agents aren’t advising them accordingly. And maybe they have talked to, they didn’t talk to me, but maybe they’ve talked to other people who told them what the value is, and maybe they didn’t listen.
So I mean, it’s, you know, it’s a combination of, you know, agents educating their clients, but sometimes you can only do so much, right?
Jeffrey
Yeah, and that brings up an interesting question. Have you ever been with a seller, and you know, they wanted to work with you, but at a certain point have you had to part ways because they won’t take your advice, maybe they want to list at a price that’s too high?
Patrick
Oh yeah, many times. I’ve had situations where I’ve had to part ways with clients, and I’ve had situations where I wouldn’t even take the client on. I had a situation, I’m not even sure if I mentioned this to you the last time we talked, but in August of last year, I had someone who came to me and wanted to list with me, and wanted my expertise, and my visibility in the community.
But the guy wanted $3.9k for his house, and I said, your house is worth $3.4k, and he’s like, well, you know, I need $3.9k, and I’m like, yeah, well, I need 3% body fat, right? It ain’t gonna happen. I mean, I use that analogy all the time, but all joking aside, I said, I don’t want the listing.
I mean, I just, I’ll waste my time, I’ll waste my marketing, you know, it looks bad on me. And anyways, long story short, he listed with, you know, he told me a family member would take it, and the family member took it, and guess what? Still sitting there today at $3.9k. And it’s not worth $3.9k. Beautiful house, but I mean, it’s just not worth $3.9k. And that market is soft right now in Leaside, right?
Jeffrey
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it is really tough because, you know, people think, well, put all this work into this place, and, you know, the finishes are, you know, like someone would expect, but it’s always a challenge at the top of the market. If you’re there, and you’re listing above what other similar places listed for, even if it’s very, very well done, you know, you can’t really go against the market.
Like people aren’t just going to say, well, I’ll give you the extra money, because it’s so nice if there’s other places that are the same type of value for less.
Patrick
Yeah, exactly.
Jeffrey
So switching gears a little bit, we’re obviously into the spring market now. And like you said, probably started out a bit slow. Do you have any ideas or forecasts?
Have you repaired your broken crystal ball for this spring market?
Patrick
Yeah, exactly. My crystal ball has been shattered since COVID. But I mean, just based on the first couple of weeks into our market, I mean, you start sort of second, third week of January, and we’re early in the market.
There’s some very positive signs, but there’s also some weird stuff. So I mean, my gut, I mean, I talked with some people last week, they have a, you know, a high $3 million house. And I’m like, you know, they need a week or two to get ready.
Then we’re into family day, then there’s two weeks, and it’s March break. And I’m saying, you know, maybe you might want to wait till March break, because you’re going to lose a couple of weeks in terms of timing. And those homes take two, four weeks to sell.
So you don’t want to get stale on the market. My gut tells me, based on everything I’m seeing right now, based on the call for an election, which will be coming tomorrow provincially, we already know it’s a foregone conclusion, you know, based on a lot of stuff. I think maybe our spring market may be a little later to start this year.
I think, which I don’t like, I mean, I always look forward to, you know, coming back from holidays and getting right back into it in January, February, leading up to March break. But I think that we’re going to start a little later this year. I think people again, there’s some uncertainty.
But I think the people that are out there right now, they’re smart. I mean, you should be, if you’re looking, and if you want to sell, I mean, there’s not a lot of good stuff on the market, you should be selling now. People are buying, there are some, there are buyers out there, we’re seeing it.
I have an offer on one of my listings right now, came in this morning. So stuff is selling. So I mean, my thought is, is that could be a little bit of a later spring market start.
But then all of a sudden, I hope that doesn’t translate into, well, from a selling standpoint, anyways, a lot more product, which means competition for sellers, which maybe could be good for buyers. But right now, I mean, I think it’s a good time to get out there. And you know, the smart people are out there and they’re listing and they’re buying.
Jeffrey
Yeah, that’s a really good point is some of the activity we’ve seen in the market is almost like what’s called the herd effect, where people look and they see down the street that someone is listing, they say, oh, I better get mine on the market. And like you said, from a seller’s point of view, right now, it’s a little quiet, maybe it’s a great time, you’ll get more attention. If you’re priced to sell, you’re not way above what the market would demand.
And I know that people think, well, you know, the spring market always brings a price increase, so maybe I’ll list towards the end of the spring market. Again, you know, risky strategy. If you really want to sell, if you’re serious about it, maybe those extra few grand aren’t going to make a difference.
And it might mean that your place is languishing on the market for a couple of months.
Patrick
Well, you’re absolutely right. I mean, and look what happened last year. I mean, it is a very risky strategy because, I mean, normally our spring market goes through until, I mean, I start to get nervous around the beginning of June, mid-June, but we fizzled out late May last year, which was really earlier.
I mean, and we started, we went into a lull. June was, you know, people that came to me in the end of May to list, it was like, I didn’t realize it at the time, but all of a sudden when mid-June hit, I was like, oh crap, we started, the signs were there at the end of May that we were starting to quiet. And normally that doesn’t happen until mid-June.
And then we had a, you know, very quiet summer, which is normal. And then fall was like all over the map. Started out crazy, slowed for a week or two, ended crazy, right?
So yeah, it’s a, timing the market is, you know, get in, it’s spring, it’s time to sell. I mean, you would never know it by looking outside, but get your house on the market. There’s buyers out there.
I wouldn’t, I’m not concerned about the Trump effect from a housing standpoint. I’m not concerned about the provincial election. Rates are coming down again, January 29th.
I mean, I just, again, this isn’t just me being a realtor speaking up my business. I mean, I’m a realist, right?
Jeffrey
Yeah, absolutely. And like you said, it’s almost what the financial advisors say about the stock market. It’s not timing the market, it’s time in the market.
And the, you know, the kind of, if you’re able to kind of make a plan and get in, and like we talked about, try to take some of the emotion out of it. You know, what’s in the past is in the past. Then that’s kind of the way that unfortunately you have to do this is really start to think about it as very, very long term and not sort of get too kind of bound up on a week or two or a point or two.
So. Exactly, exactly. Before I let you go, is there anything else you’d like to share with us?
Patrick
No, I mean, I’m looking forward to it. I think it’s going to be a great year. I think we’ve got to get by a few little uncertainties.
Like I said, more federally than provincially. I think rates are coming down. You know, I think prices are stable presently.
I mean, I think it’s a good time to sell, good time to buy. I think it’s going to be a good year. I really do.
Jeffrey
All right. With that, Patrick, maybe you could tell us how people can get a hold of you.
Patrick
Yeah, absolutely. I can be reached anytime through my office. I’m located here in Leaside at 103 Vanderhoof Avenue.
My phone number is 416-322-8000. If I’m not here to leave voicemail, I get right back to you. You can reach me directly on email, which is probably best.
My email is mail@patrickrocca.com. I would love to chat to anybody if they would like to talk about the market and or opinion of value on their house or my thoughts, even if they’re a year or two away. I’d love to chat.
Jeffrey
I can definitely vouch for the fact that Patrick gets back to people on email very quickly. It seems almost 24 hours a day I can get a response very quickly from you.
Patrick
Yeah, I’m a little anal that way.
Jeffrey
Well, you are committed, so that’s fantastic. Well, it’s been a pleasure as always to talk, Patrick, and I look forward to our next chat.
Patrick
Absolutely. Thank you, Jeffrey, and have a great day.
Jeffrey: Hello everyone. I’m here again with Patrick Rocca of Bosley real estate, and at this time in September 2024 we’re going to talk about some really interesting things happening in the midtown Toronto, real estate market so before we get into it I’m going to ask Patrick to introduce himself and what he does.
Patrick: Good morning, Jeffrey and thank you for having me again. Patrick Rocca with Bosley Real Estate located in midtown Toronto in the Leaside area. Looking forward to giving you an update.
Jeffrey: Fantastic. Now, I think we’re a bit of an interesting point because we’ve seen a higher interest rate environment. And for the last sort of 18 months, I think it’s affected the market coming out of that very very low interest rate environment that we had for a number of years.
Jeffrey: And at the moment we’ve seen the Bank of Canada cut rates a couple of times and just last week the US Federal Reserve, cut their interest rate by a half point. So, Patrick, have you seen any differences in the real estate market over the past sort of six to eight weeks.
Patrick: Yes, I have. Let’s just talk about pre September. I think we last talked in the spring. Spring was a very good market.
Contrary to what some people will say, the high end was a little tougher. Leaside, Davisville, stuff in the, you know, under 2.5, 3 million stuff was very much moving. Even through the summer, the product that was under 2 million, the semis, the bungalows, that stuff was moving, although there was a lot less of it.
Where it was very stagnant was in the upper part of the market during the summer. With the rate decreases, have we seen more activity? We’ve seen more mental, people mentally now are feeling a little better because they feel that we’re coming out of this. So, I mean, yes, I think, you know, with rates, with the first time buyer program that they updated last week, we’re going to start to see that more so now, I believe.
It is kind of a catch 22 because when you’ve got interest rates coming down, it typically means our economy sucks. And so, but, and there are parts of our economy that are not great. When you look at the U.S., it’s the same sort of thing and they’re in the same boat.
They decreased, you know, half a point last week and it had a positive effect on the stock market. But in terms of real estate, we’re seeing people come back into the market. I think it’s a little too early for the first time buyer one.
The interest rates, I think, and I’ve said this before, I mean, everybody keeps saying, well, should we wait until the next announcement? Should we wait to list until the next announcement? Should we wait to buy until the next announcement? Well, you know, every announcement is going to go down. So, the question is, is the next one, is it going to be 0.25 or 0.5? And, you know, in the meantime, properties are selling and prices are going back up. So, you’re waiting for rates to come down a little bit, but are you losing on the value of property increases? So, again, it’s kind of a catch-22.
I think it’s a good time to buy. And I also think it’s a great time to sell as long as you’re realistic. And, you know, I’ve said this time and time again, the realistic sellers that are priced right will sell.
Albeit, interestingly enough, we’ve had a few hiccups in the last week or so that I’ve noticed in the market where stuff that’s priced right hasn’t sold. And then stuff that you look at that you think, wow, I don’t know if that’ll sell, it sells. So, it’s kind of weird.
I mean, I started off the fall gangbusters. I mean, like last week, I did like five deals or something. It was crazy and good, solid pricing.
And this week, kind of a little weird. So, I don’t know if it’s just week to week. But the general consensus is there’s more positive thought in the market amongst buyers and sellers for that matter.
Jeffrey: Yeah, that’s good. And it reminds me of driving down one of the main streets in Leaside. And I noticed you had a property listed. And two or three doors up, there was another property that’s been listed for a while longer. I won’t name the realtor, but it has a green sign.
Patrick: Well, I think it’s just what I alluded to earlier.
I was at $1,599,000. I think the one you’re in question about is close to $3 million. So, different price points, different buyers.
The $1,599,000 sold for $1,599,000 immediately, like literally in one day. So, again, under that $2,500,000, there was another one. I think if it’s the same street we’re talking about, there was another one on that street that sold for over asking as well in a week.
Again, it was in the $2,500,000 range. So, once you get above the $2,500,000-$2,500,000-$3,500,000 range, it starts to be a little more dicier. And a lot of those are as well.
I mean, when you look at the $3,000,000-plus range, a lot of those are the newer builds. And those are just flat right now. The new construction, the modern stucco renovated homes, they’re sitting for various reasons.
Number one, the price point. Number two, a lot of them are still overpriced and people are not pricing properly. So, yeah, I mean, again, that situation, I think price point again.
Jeffrey: Yeah. And there’s obviously, you alluded to some interesting buyer psychology there. And for anyone that’s thinking about taking on a mortgage for property, obviously over seven figures, you’re thinking, okay, well, if I can kind of squeeze another quarter point, half point, I’m going to save myself X dollars in interest payments over whatever the term of the mortgage is.
But I think you brought up something very, very interesting. If people have been looking for a home for a while, and it takes them a while to find the real home that they like, that’s got all the attributes and features, isn’t that worth it to make sure that you get the right home?
Patrick: Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, it’s all about, you know, what suits your needs and what you’re looking for.
And I mean, you shouldn’t just buy something, especially real estate. It’s not like buying a loaf of bread. Because you think it’s a good deal.
I mean, it has to suit your family needs, your personal needs. There’s all sorts of things that it has to fit. And you’re right, if you wait an extra month or two and rates go down or rates go up, so be it, right? It’s more important to find the right property.
And I say that to clients all the time. I mean, when they’re considering offering on a property, I say to them, well, I mean, if you’re uncertain about buying this home, I mean, ask yourself the question, if it sells tonight, would you be upset? And if they say no, I’m like, well, it’s not your house, right? Move on. Let’s get you another one, right? Yeah, a hundred percent.
Jeffrey: You’re absolutely right. It is very emotional. And it’s something that, you know, it incites emotion regardless of whether you’re buying or whether you’re selling.
So, I mean, it’s a different asset for sure. So, you know, when you look at the property after you buy it, a lot of properties, especially in this neighborhood, are older. You know, they may need some sprucing up from, you know, small renovations to larger ones.
And that can really affect what people are willing to get into. You know, obviously people want to move in and not have to do anything. But the reality is that depending on their situation, they may actually have to do something.
And then you’re talking about, you know, a certain number of months or even years of not necessarily getting to the point where you’re comfortable living in that house.
Patrick: Yeah, you nailed that. I mean, you’re a hundred percent correct. I mean, you know, and again, if you look at properties individually and price points, I mean, case in point, I have a listing right now, a semi with an addition in South Leaside, and it’s got an addition. And it’s listed for $1,399,000. And the comments, feedback I’m getting are, well, you know, we need to do some work on the main floor to open it up to make it more our style.
And I’m like, well, yeah, that’s why it’s listed at $1,399,000. We sold one last night for $1,575,000. So, if you want to put $100,000 into it, great.
That’s why it’s listed at $1,399,000. And a lot of times, you know, people will look at a property and say, well, it needs too much work. Well, they got to look at the price.
And if it’s priced according to the market, you know, you can buy that, fix it up, and you’re still ahead of the game, right? Exactly. And, you know, obviously, that’s where you would come into play. I mean, you know, if you’re looking at a house that’s priced at $1,399,000, that’s part of the game. So let’s talk to a designer, let’s talk to someone like yourself, let’s talk to someone and get an idea, because if you pay $1,399,000 for something, put $100,000 or $150,000 into it, you’re still ahead of the game.
Jeffrey: That’s really good advice, and I think that like we’re talking about, for most people this isn’t an investment which they’re going to flip. We don’t tend to talk about builders when we have discussions. It’s mostly individuals, families who are really buying a house to live in, not to make a pure investment or a flip. So in that case, you’ve got to look at your time horizon.
Most buyers have a time horizon which is more than a couple of years in a home, and in that time, you can do a lot. Even without spending a ton of cash, you can do stuff like paint, landscaping, fix up some of the smaller things to really make it your own. Then maybe when you’re ready, you can do the larger projects.
You don’t have to do it right before you move in.
Patrick: Exactly. You don’t have to do everything all at once.
You can do things over time, and that’s probably a better way to go, especially for a first-time buyer or someone who’s just getting into a home as opposed to a condo.
Jeffrey: Yeah, and great segue. You’re talking about the condo market. From what I’ve been seeing over the past couple of months, it’s been pretty flat, and I’m wondering if you do much in the condo space.
Patrick: Well, I do, and I’d say 10-15% of my sales are condos. I mean, there’s more houses in Midtown than there is…well, I shouldn’t say that now.
The condos are popping up everywhere, but I tend to concentrate more in my neighborhood directly on the east side. There’s more homes than condos. But interestingly enough, I have two condos that I just recently listed, both last week.
One sold in two days, and the other one, I haven’t had a showing, and it’s just perplexing. I mean, the one that sold in two days, I was quite surprised. I mean, I figured it would take a week.
It’s a good building. And the other one, the fact that I haven’t even had a showing, I scratch my head because the building is a good building. This is a good unit.
It’s got two parking spots. So the condo market, in general, if you’re talking south of Bloor, it’s in the crapper, especially the new stuff, the pre-con. All that stuff is bad.
Established buildings are still good. So if you’ve got an established building, even if it’s downtown, you should be okay. Is it going to fly off the shelf? No, you’ve got to work it.
Midtown, again, Midtown, you know, you look at the property that I sold in like a couple of days was on Mount Pleasant. Good building. You know, in our area, Kilgore Estates, you know, Sherwood, Huntington, those buildings are selling at their price right.
But again, like I said, downtown is a bit of a train wreck.
Jeffrey: Yeah. And I know that some of the folks I’ve been talking to, they’re wondering about the value of some of these new builds, whether it’s pre-con or just, you know, newly completed.
The sizing of the units, obviously they’ve been getting smaller over time for the past 20, 30 years. So, they’re, they’re looking at one bedrooms, you know, that are 600-ish, maybe 650. And, and they’re saying, you know, my goodness, I can get, you know, bigger apartments, and, these 1960s apartments are much bigger than that.
Have you been hearing a lot of that in terms of value from your buyers?
Patrick: Yeah. I mean, people that have bought in pre-con, like within, I think if you go back to 2019, that was kind of a cutoff. If you bought like 19, 20, 21, and you’re just closing now, you’re, you’re worth less than what you paid.
And the reality is, I mean, I’ve had several conversations with several clients who have closed recently, and I’ve told them both, just walk from your deposit. I mean, you’re going to lose less if you walk from your deposit.
Jeffrey: Wow.
Patrick: Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s not good. But yeah, on the other hand, I mean, resale, good established buildings, you can get bigger square footage, and you can get a good price on those as well. And you’re not paying, I mean, a lot of these people that bought pre-con, they’re paying huge, you know, 12, 13, 1400 a foot, right? It’s not worth that now, right? You can buy a resale for, you know, 850 to 1100.
So if you can get a bigger unit, right?
Jeffrey: Oh, 100%. And I, you know, in our neighborhood, there are older condos, I’m thinking of one that’s just on Merton Street, near Yonge Street, it was built, I think, in the late 80s, early 90s. And, you know, it faces the Mount Pleasant Cemetery.
It’s on the south side, it’s got fantastic views, big suites. And from talking to some of the folks who live there, apparently, once you get in, you never move because the quality of the space is so good. And I think that those are kind of hidden gems in the market.
And like you said, resale, you’re getting a lot of value for your square foot.
Patrick: 100%. And I always tell people to buy something established. Merton Street is a great example. It’s a great strip. I love the condos on that strip. Especially ones facing the cemetery. I mean, a lot of people don’t like that. But that’s a park.
I mean, people talk through there, they bike through there. But yeah, I mean, we always try to encourage our buyers who are downsizing to buy something that’s already established. To stay away from the pre-con, to stay away from the newer stuff, because you’re getting better value, bigger square footage.
Jeffrey: And, you know, to a certain extent, you know, they’re never going to build on Mount Pleasant Cemetery. So your view is not going to get interrupted by, you know, another condo going right beside you.
Patrick: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, you know, for a condo, you know, I know there’s folks who want to live on the ground floor, but if you’re looking for those attributes, like a fantastic view of the city, those are some of the key selling points if you ever decide to sell it in the future.
And if you know that that view is not going to be impeded, you know, that’s a certain amount of security or peace of mind that you’re going to have about the value of the unit.
Patrick: Absolutely. Yeah, no, it’s spectacular.
Those south-facing units, they’ve got a spectacular city line view and they’re good buildings. They’re well-managed buildings and your proximity to, you know, the subway and all that. It’s a great, great location.
Jeffrey: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Final thing I’ve noticed there are, and I think you alluded to it earlier, there are some units and houses which are sitting forever just up the street from where I live.
There’s a few that were listed. One was listed very, very high and they eventually took it off the market because they weren’t going to get that price. The other one has been sitting for quite a while and it’s priced just above a house which sold about a month and a half ago for, I would say, $90,000 less.
And so I think it’s interesting. Again, I know that the real estate agent that’s selling that is not local. It must be, maybe it’s a family connection, that sort of thing.
So, you know, not knowing or not being intimately familiar with the market, being able to market, have the connections within this area, I think is actually hurting the sellers. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Patrick: Yeah, there’s a lot to be said about that. I mean, it’s like, you know, why would I go to Oakville to list a property, right? I mean, we have a property in our community right now where it’s listed by a Burlington agent.
I mean, like, who does that? I mean, it’s just not, I mean, and it’s not just that property. I mean, there’s another one that’s listed by an Oakville agent. I mean, number one, I would never do that because it’s not a good service to my client.
I don’t know the Oakville market. I don’t know the Burlington market. I would refer them to a very reputable agent in that area.
And, you know, I don’t know how people, you know, a lot of agents are desperate. They’re not doing business, so they’ll go anywhere for business. And quite frankly, they’re not doing their clients any justice.
They’re overpricing their properties. The two in particular that I’m talking about, and, you know, they’re in the Midtown area, both overpriced. And no kidding.
If you like, if I went to Oakville, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t know pricing. I mean, so it’s important to you, someone local, someone who’s established, someone who’s been in the business for a while and someone who’s got a reputation. I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, it is what it is.
And it just, you know, if you, if you, if you want, if you have a heart surgery, you don’t want to go to some guy that, you know, just came out of college. You want, you want somebody who’s established and someone, I mean, that’s a bad analogy, I know, but I mean, you want someone who’s got experience, someone who knows the community, someone that knows what’s going on in the community, someone that knows the developments. You know, there’s, there’s lots happening in our area that a lot of people don’t even know about, you know, that, you know, future developments, you know, what’s happening, what’s not happening.
And a local agent that is worth their salt is, is updated on that type of stuff. Yeah, absolutely. They’ll be plugged into all of that stuff.
Jeffrey: And, you know, the neighborhood, as you know, is going under, undergoing a lot of different changes. Now the, the, I guess some of the key aspects of that affect, you know, how you’re going to live, you know, the, the different features that you would look at and, and really, again, the availability to, to be kind of plugged into what’s happening. I remember the days of the mid-teens when, I mean, it’s, it’s a bit of an exaggeration, but there was so much demand and so little product and the interest rate environment was fairly stable.
I mean, if you sold something, you know, and you just had a sense of what some of the neighbors were selling for, you could basically put it on the market and it would sell. These days, I don’t think that’s the case at all. I think you do really need to know what’s happening, not just on the financial side, but like you said, in terms of what other properties sold for and the story behind why they sold for that.
It’s not just the number. There could be lots and lots of reasons behind that story.
Patrick: Yeah, a hundred percent.
And I’ve always, I always say to people when I meet with them, listen, anybody, like anybody can sell a house. I mean, like a seller can sell their own house. The question is, is how much money are you going to get? I mean, and that’s where someone who is local, such as myself and someone who’s got experience brings to the table.
I’m going to get you more money. I mean, you can sell your house for $7, but I’m going to get you 10, right? So it’s, it’s, it’s, I mean, people think it’s easy and think that, you know, they’re saving and, but they’re not, they’re losing actually. Yeah.
Jeffrey: And it’s not just the fact that someone can write a description and, you know, know that maybe four bedrooms was going to run more than three bedrooms. It’s all about, like it’s pricing, but it’s also about the network of being able to make sure that, you know, the, the other agents, the, the buying agents who’ve got, uh, buyers who would be really interested in this type of property and being able to bring them to, to the, the showings because, you know, nobody wants to waste time.
And so a lot of, uh, a lot of agents will not even bother going to specific properties if they’re overpriced. It’s like, well, you know, not going to play that game. My time’s worth too much.
Patrick: Yeah, exactly. Nope. You’re, you’re a hundred percent correct.
So again, we’re hoping for a, we’re hoping for a good, it’s only the start of the fall, we’re hoping for a good, a good end to the fall. I mean, I think there’s some positive, like I said earlier, some positive, uh, some positive signs there, there’s some, some weird stuff happening too, but I mean, I think that happens all the time.
And, uh, I think the next, uh, 30, 60 days will be, be interesting. And, um, I, I’m, I’m the glass is half full type of guy. So, uh, I, I think we’re in good shape as long as you’re doing the right things.
Jeffrey: Perfect. All right. And if folks want to get a hold of you, Patrick, what’s the best way to do that? Oh, the best way to reach me is, my office is on Vanderhoof at 103 Vanderhoof Avenue.
Also, email is probably the best, mail@PatrickRocca.com. Um, or you can call me directly on my office line at 416-322-8000.
If I’m not in, I’ll call you back within minutes. Um, so happy to talk to anybody anytime about, uh, any questions I have with regards to real estate. All right.
Jeffrey: Well, Patrick, it’s been a pleasure as always. Uh, thanks for the call. And I know that we’ll talk soon.
Patrick: Absolutely. You take care of yourself. Thank you.
